From: [email protected] (George W Killian)
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:03:12 -0400
Subject: 1970 German Correspondence RE: Andreas
From George W. Killian [email protected]
Who is the father of Andreas? For a few decades it has been presumed
(or thought at least possible) that his father might be Philip Wolfgang
Kilian, also known as, Johannes Philip Wolfgang Kilian. My father,
Cletus Hugo Killian, suggested this possibility at least as early as 1950.
In the ensuing decades several people have tried to prove this is either
right or wrong. Some have done original research in Germany. To the
best of my knowledge no one has been able to find any other father for
Andreas and none have shown that the presumed father is an error.
In 1970 I tried to do some research by mail. If you recall your
history Germany was divided in 1970 and part was under Russian control.
Below I am going to copy two responses I received in response to my
inqiries. I neither speak, read or write German and the
correspondence had to be in the German language. A neighbor did
translations for me. Any material placed in square brackets [ ] is
not part of the original letter but is included for additional
information.
FIRST LETTER
City of Augsburg
City Archive
Fuggerstrasse 12 March 25, 1970
Subject: Family research Kilian
Very Honored Mr. Killian
Your conjecture, that Andreas Kilian was born in 1702 in Augsburg as
son of Wolfgang Philipp Kilian and his third wife Anna Dorothea
Warnaberger cannot be proven by the best authority.
Wolfgang Philipp Kilian, copper engraver, entered his first marriage
outside of Augsburg with Margareta Reiter. After the death of his
first wife, he returned to Augsburg. The City of Augsburg appointed
on Jan. 19, 1695 Goldsmith [a trade, not a name] Johann Philipp
[Wolfgang Kilian] Schuch [I don't know what Scuch means] and Copper
Engraver Jeremias Kilian, his brother as caretakers of his five sons
out of the first marriage: Johann Jakob, Philipp Marx, Johann Friedrich,
Georg [Martin] and Paulus. Each was paid 10 Gulden.
In February 1695, (Licence: Feb 1, 1695) Wolfgang Philipp married his
second wife- Esther Maria Frommer from Augsburg, who died either at
the end of 1695 or the beginning of 1696.
On July 14, 1696, the City gave permission to Wolfgang Phillip to enter
into his 3rd marriage with Anna Dorothea Warnberger [His third marriage
- not his third marriage to Anna]. From this marriage, a son was
baptized on February 6, 1701 - Johann Philipp. (Auskunft des evangel.
Kirchenregisteramtes). (Information on the Evangelical Church registry
Office). Other children besides Andreas were not born here.
One must therefore assume, that Wolfgang Phillip moved away from
Augsburg with his family in 1701 or 1702. It is difficult to ascertain
where he travelled to.
We advise you to write to: Staatliche Archivlager der Stiftung
Preussen Kulturbesitz 34 Goettingen, Merkelstrasse 3. So that either
there or at another place the microfilms of the Ostpreussen
Kirchnebuecher are available. I do not know if the Koenisberger
Churchbooks were microfilmed either before or during the last war.
It is very probable.
It is going to be difficult to ascertain their travels. When
Phillip Wolfgang Kilian stayed at several possible places- perhaps
Leipzig, it is possible that his son Andreas was born. In the German
Deomocratic Republic, they created their own center for geneological
research for German people and family history. Write to:
Staatsarchiv Leipzig S701 Leipzig 1,
Georgi Dimitroff - Platz 1,
Wolfgang Philipp's Augsburger relative Georg Kilian had a son- Philipp
Andreas who was a well known painter and copper engraver (born in
Augsburg 1714, died Augsburg 1759). His best known work are the much
propogated picture Bibles).
In the event that Andreas Kilian is actually your ancestor and if you
can determine he is the son of Wolfgang Philipp, we would be happy to
continue the research further for you. I see just from your letters
that Wolfgang Phillip was also active in Nuernberg. Perhaps Andreas
was born there. We recommend that you write to:
Landeskirchlichen Archiv
85 Nuernberg
Vielhofstrasse 28
On the basis of the User and Pay ordinance of the City Archives of
Nuernberg of May 24, 1968, we ask that you pay a fee of DM 12.00.
We ask that you pay this fee to Account No. 040006 at the
Stadtsparkasse [Name of a bank] Augsburg with the following notations:
HsS. 0. 3210.130,HU1 Nr.38.
With good wishes for your research and friendly greetings,
Dr Blendinger
Archive Director
[This translation made by my son-in-law, Randall J. Smith, 10 Mar 1992]
END OF LETTER FIRST LETTER
SECOND LETTER
Landeskirchliches Archiv 85 Nuernberg, September 18.1970
Mr. George W. Killian
[a along obsolete address]
Dear Mr. Killian!
To our regret we only can give you a negative answer:
Andreas Kilian, son of Wolfgang Philipp, was not born in Nuernberg.
There are here 3 Children of Wolfgang Philipp Kilian and his wife
Dorothea, Baptized: 3 Doughters but no son.
Margaretha-Barbara, baptized 10 Feb 1706
Margaretha baptized 20 Aug 1709
Maria-Regina-Elizabeth baptized 5 Jan 1712
This is all we can find.
Please send us D.Ml 5.50 ($1.55) for this information.
With best regards
I. A. Burger
Keeper of the Records
END OF SECOND LETTER
If any of you desire to see a photo copy of the original
German letter please write to me at:
George W. Killian, 17 Charing Cross, Fairport, NY 14450-3926.
Please send $1. To cover copying and postage etc. Thank you.
The following references give considerable information about
the Kilians of Germany who were Goldsmiths, Copper plate Engravers
and Artists. Thieme Becker Kunstler Lexikon Vol. XX 1927 Ed. Pages
288 to 305. Dictionnaire Peintres Sculpeurs 1952 Ed. Pages 250 & 251
Bryan's Dictionary of Painters and Engravers Vo. III 1964 Ed. Pages
132 to 134. Thieme und Becker Allgemeines Lexikon der bildenden
Kunstler 1927 Edition Volume 20 pages 288 to 306.
Sixteen pages of my 300 page text deal with translations of
selected parts of some of these references.
Below is a third letter that does not relate quite as directly to
Andreas, but itmay be of interest.
means added to this page since __.